And so most speculation takes place on the financial side.

But admittedly the worst part of that greed is certainly in the financial side of society because the financial side is playing games with paper and, you know, things with numbers on them rather than manufacturing things that mean something like, you know, jet airplanes, for example. This is really an economy-wide problem, a societal problem where there's too much greed everywhere. BOGLE: Well, I'd take a half a step back, I think, Alison, if I may, and just say this is not just a financial problem of - problem of the financial sector of our economy. Was there some moment, some legislation, some action that you think helped lead some financial leaders to forego good character? And right now good character is not something that the average taxpayer necessarily would attribute to some people's performance who got us into this financial mess. STEWART: You mention that a lot of your book is about character. You can't measure character, you can't measure integrity, you can't measure moral conduct, you can't measure love, the things that are really important in our lives, in our society. We think we can count everything that's important, and we can't do that. And the idea that you think you know something when you see a number is just greatly overdone. If someone's corporation, for example, says their earnings were $1.32 per share, the amount of financial engineering that's gone into that number is usually rather breathtaking. We've got this counting society, and we rely on numbers to give us facts that are really not facts. BOGLE: There's a sign in Einstein's office that I describe in the book that says there are some things that count that can't be counted and some things that can be counted that don't count. Tell us the pitfalls of constantly counting. STEWART: Now, I almost hesitated in mentioning how much money Vanguard holds because after reading your book you devote a whole chapter to explaining how Americans rely too much on counting things like money to determine success. JOHN BOGLE (Founder, The Vanguard Group): Great to be with you, Alison. Bogle, thank you so much for spending some time with us. The book is called 'Enough: The True Measure of Money, Business, and Life.' John Bogle joins us from member station WHYY in Philadelphia. Now, his new book isn't so much about investment advice as it is a philosophical look at how much wealth, fame, and power one person really needs and why those running our financial system are dangerously addicted to accumulating more and more and more. Bogle is the founder and former CEO of The Vanguard Group, the trillion dollar mutual fund, one of the largest in the world. Online they discuss his every move and comment about the United States' financial system.

John c bogle don t count on it